Boxerworks.com

Hi,

Thank you for your reply.

chasbmw wrote:It really does look to me like a quick and dirty Cafe conversion, I see the low bars, but no rear sets, crappy aftermarket indicators and seat, lots of Matt paint, how well was that applied? I can't see if the under tank master cylinder was retained, if so the brakes will need some getting used to.

The seller told me he made the seat structure from fiber-glass. There was no padded seat, just the space for it. I'd have to buy or make one.

I'm sure the paint was applied as fast and cheap as possible. To me it looked crappy, but I was just thinking, "That's not a a big deal; I can change that." At the top of the tank there were a few spots of rust breaking through. It would need another and better paint job eventually. However I am an artist so painting something is right up my alley and I happen to have a friend who does auto-body work (he has his own shop) who would certainly advise and help me out.

Mechanically I'm sure this seller did not do anything. He says that a few years ago he installed a new wiring harness, but I'm sure he would not have moved the master cylinder.

chasbmw wrote: It's very easy to do a quick and dirty Cafe conversion, you still drop a bit in parts and paint, but it's very difficult to do a really nice one, which requires good workmanship, a good eye for design and good quality parts. This costs big bucks in time and parts.

I would not take too much notice of mileage, BMW speedos go back to Zero after 99,999 miles and can be easily altered.

This maybe the only bike in the area that gets close to what you want, but I bet that you are the only likely buyer, so it's a a game of poker between the 2 of you. You don't really know what his position is and as time goes on I assume that the unpaid DMV charges will keep on getting bigger

Design and workmanship is exactly what I consider fun. That's part of the reason I DO NOT want a perfectly restored example. I'd feel stupid paying for fairings and a paint job that I don't really want, then I'd feel bad and I don't know if I'd have the heart to take that pretty thing apart to make it my own. I'd rather just start with something that needs work and then prune and build to my vision which will be better than how it arrived.

One of the detail pix I took is of the brake peddle. I was told by an experienced airhead lover on another forum that one way you can get a clue as to mileage is if the front of the tread on the peddle is worn down or not. If the front edge is smooth you can add 100,000. As you can see (if my link worked) there is still quite a bit left. The person who gave me that tip also saw the picture and said it looked like it was in the neighborhood of 30,000, so that's about right.

Yes the DMV fees will keep adding up each year.
He told me he's not in a hurry to sell. I think he might have been a little shocked at the back fees, but at that point we were only communicating by email (I sent him a pic of the info I got on the DMV website), so I don't know for sure.

He might have decided right then to ship the bike overseas. I don't know.
The above is all about the black bike pictured in my first post.

Here is another bike I found:

$3900 (which is right at the boarder of what I wanted to max out on. This leaves little or no room for any additional SURPRISE! work that may manifest as soon as I get it home)
The mileage is:
59,000

A nice new paint job (darn!) but the title is a salvage, so the numbers do not match. Others have said that this may mean that the bike was in an accident or the engine was destroyed and either the frame or engine was replaced. So there may be some bent parts or abused parts (for example the transmission or final drive parts) hidden within.

Or maybe it's fine and I'm being paranoid!
I think it belongs to a collector. The ad states that there are a lot of new parts:

BMW R100S, 1978, Good condition, runs well and all sorted out airhead. A bunch of new parts, starter, diode board, battery, all new cables, everything works including the clock. Tuned and running great. I am thinning my collection a bit and I just don't use this bike that much. Comes with two factory BMW side cases. It is registered until July 2014.

I don't know.
It's kind of far so I'm not in hurry to get down there and find out it's crap and the guy won't budge on price.

How does this look to you folks?

P.S.
Before I started writing this, I sent the seller an email to see if it's still available and if he's checked the rear bearing and splines.
He responded as I'm finishing this up. He says he has greased the splines. He has several bikes and just does not use this one that much. He's a mechanical engineer, so that seems like a good sign.

I'll call him later when I have time.
Hopefully in the mean time I can get some feedback on here and I'll have some intelligent questions to ask.
Thanks.

Kelly, did I offer you a dark beer?

THIS year you get one, at least!!
THANKS for setting everyone straight, Rob.
It's really hard herding cats....

BYW, has anyone heard from Scot (with ONE T) lately?
No see, No posts.
Souljer, the point is to not do anything hasty. A RIGHT bike will turn up for the price you need, that probably is ready to ride and you can do what you want as time permits. If you have a reliable rider, you'll meet other people who have parts you can use for your ideal ride and have fun in the meantime.

I'm sure the paint was applied as fast and cheap as possible. To me it looked crappy, but I was just thinking, "That's not a a big deal; I can change that." At the top of the tank there were a few spots of rust breaking through. It would need another and better paint job eventually. However I am an artist so painting something is right up my alley and I happen to have a friend who does auto-body work (he has his own shop) who would certainly advise and help me out.

If rust is breaking out, then that really indicates that the workmanship is crappy........the real danger in buying old bikes is that someone has done a really good makeover on the cosmetics, but has spent nothing on the expensive mechanicals! I would be doubly wary of buying from someone who can't even get the cosmetics right. Anyway you could always point out that the rust and the DMV fees are not going to go away.

Buying an airhead in original unmolested condition is always a better way and ride it for a while before getting into wholesale modifications, you might just find it works for you.

Jeans advice is good, just wait and the right bike will come along

I reckon that seat will give you a bum ache in about 1 hour and a new seat would be advisable.

Get the red one.....much better shape at least from what I can see in the pix. If it's a reprint it's a good job...pinstripes and all. Offer 3000 and see where it goes from there?

This one looks pretty complete to period.

I had a 77 and loved it but was thinning the fleet so....great motors with the high compression heads 9.5 to 1' highest they ever had...subsequent years they detuned them although I think the 78 were still high, maybe 9.0 to 1. Later years detuned to around 8.5 to 1. Loads of roll on power and they were one of the lightest airheads of that era.

But, wouldn't trust a mechanical engineer about anything mechanical...

She'llbe wrote:I reckon that seat will give you a bum ache in about 1 hour and a new seat would be advisable.

He could take some para-seat-amol?
What end would he take it tho?
Prolly the water drinkin' end.

The red bike looks very nice as far as we can tell from a single photo. The price seems a bit high for a salvage title and non-matching numbers, but, if it's really as nice as it looks, it can't hurt to make an offer.

Salvage title and engine and frame that don't match numbers make for a bike that is less valuable to sell, but it has no impact on the value for you as a rider. A very nice bike can drop a valve or something similarly devastating, and another bike can be in an accident that ruins the forks and frame, but it may still have a great engine. Put the two together, and sometimes you end up with a better bike than either were before their individual "disaster."

Souljer wrote: Here is another bike I found:

$3900 (which is right at the boarder of what I wanted to max out on. This leaves little or no room for any additional SURPRISE! work that may manifest as soon as I get it home)
The mileage is:
59,000

A nice new paint job (darn!) but the title is a salvage, so the numbers do not match. Others have said that this may mean that the bike was in an accident or the engine was destroyed and either the frame or engine was replaced. So there may be some bent parts or abused parts (for example the transmission or final drive parts) hidden within.

Or maybe it's fine and I'm being paranoid!
I think it belongs to a collector. The ad states that there are a lot of new parts:

BMW R100S, 1978, Good condition, runs well and all sorted out airhead. A bunch of new parts, starter, diode board, battery, all new cables, everything works including the clock. Tuned and running great. I am thinning my collection a bit and I just don't use this bike that much. Comes with two factory BMW side cases. It is registered until July 2014.

I don't know.
It's kind of far so I'm not in hurry to get down there and find out it's crap and the guy won't budge on price.

How does this look to you folks?

P.S.
Before I started writing this, I sent the seller an email to see if it's still available and if he's checked the rear bearing and splines.
He responded as I'm finishing this up. He says he has greased the splines. He has several bikes and just does not use this one that much. He's a mechanical engineer, so that seems like a good sign.

That is a decent looking bike, definitely worth checking it out.

I have some observations from looking at the pic. What stands out most is the lack of pinstripes on the paint, or at least contrasting pinstripes. This would be a purely aesthetic consideration. Old airheads that haven't been cafe'ed just don't look quite right to me without pinstripes. If there are none, my personal choice would be to put on some tape pinstripes, or have it done. This gives you a lot of bang for the buck aesthetically. And taped pinstripes don't offend me personally. YMMV.

The seat looks like a stock BMW and the vinyl may be hard and slick. As far as comfort, that would be in the butt of the beholder. I get butt burn, but I've tried different seats and get butt burn with all of them. New seat covers are readily available.

I notice that the valve covers are aluminum. Originally they were semi gloss black with the fins sanded to silver. Painted or not painted is a purely personal aesthetic question. However I think it's fair to say that the closer to stock the bike looks the more it will be liked by most people. You can easily paint the valve covers yourself and carefully sand the black off of the fins.

The bike has a Brown side stand which is a definite plus for most people, especially those riders who aren't tall and lanky. I would consider it a plus.

At 59K miles it's very likely that the clutch has been replaced or will need replacement soon. Both my '77 R100S and '77 R100/7 needed clutches replaced at that mileage. When I say clutches replaced I'm talking about the clutch disk. Other clutch components may or may not need replacement.

The splines have been lubed. I'm guessing we're talking about the clutch/transmission input shaft splines. That's a good thing. I wonder if the owner has anything to say about the transmission and clutch disk spline wear.

But maybe the owner was talking about rear spline wear. I would really like to get a look at the rear splines, where the wheel meets the final drive. These are also prone to wear and when worn out are expensive to repair. A new spline can be riveted to the rear wheel but renewing the splines in the final drive gets expensive. Incidentally, by looking at the splines in the final drive and on the wheel you can actually make a pretty good guess as to how much wear. You can see unworn areas of the spline and compare it to the worn areas. Then you can make a judgment that the splines are, say, 80% left, or whatever the case may be.

It will also be an absolute must to remove the gas tank and take a good hard look at the top frame tube in the area of the under tank master cylinder. This area can get quite ugly from leaking or wicking brake fluid and can weep into the starter relay pin/socket contects on the left hand side of the frame. How clean or ugly things look in that area might tell you something about the care and maintenance the bike has enjoyed.

Another area that can tell you something about how well the bike has been kept is the area in the headlight shell just behind the headlight reflector. Of course the S fairing is a bit in the way. My '77S didn't have the screw tightening the chrome headlight ring. The ring could be popped off and on again--with some difficulty.

Of course the owner may balk at anything resembling a look inside the bike's innards. But as a buyer you would sure have a lot more confidence in the bike.

I would also want to hear all the oral history on the bike that the owner can muster. Consciously or not you will be developing an impression of the bike and its owner.

I'd also want to know the condition of the saddle bags. They can and do vary from nice to ratty. If the bags are ratty, and they were used on this bike, that might tell you that the bike has been "beautified" a bit.

Another key area of concern are the instruments, the tach and speedo, as well as the lights. If everything works well and smoothly that would give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

As a buyer I would also be interested in evidence of a lot of "sun" time or weathering indications on the bike. how black is the frame and the area around the forks. I would expect that with the body pieces being freshly painted that the frame would have been freshly painted also.

One of the things I like about the '77 year airheads is that they have the mechanical rear brake, and not that hydraulic rear wheel brake that was introduced with the '78 models. I consider the mechanical brakes a definite plus.

Oh, while looking at the paint and such, be sure to look at the rubber. There is a lot of it on the bike. If the rubber is new looking that tells you something. The rubber being in good condition suggests that the bike has been decently maintained.

Oh, and I don't consider a starter, diode board, and battery a bunch of new parts.

Done for now.

Ken

Ken in Oklahoma wrote:...
Oh, and I don't consider a starter, diode board, and battery a bunch of new parts.

Done for now.

Ken

Hi,

Thank you so much Ken.
A lot of great stuff there. Unfortunately I doubt I'll be able to take anything apart as I've not done it before and would not want to do that for the first time on a bike that's not mine.

I like all the visual clues though; checking the condition of the bags for example. Great idea.

So I won't really be able to look at the splines (clutch or drive) but I will be able to ask for receipts and look at the clues on the surface.

I was not too sure the list of new parts was that great either, but I know nothing about these bikes. That's why I included the quote from the ad for you all with more experience to help me sort through it.

In my previous email I asked him if he had greased the rear bearing and splines. He replied that he had greased the splines and they look good. He did not mention the rear bearing. I can ask more when I call in a few minutes.

In his reply email he sent another picture:

I hope I have some decent questions now and hope I won't sound too clumsy.
Please feel free to add anything else that might come to mind as it all goes into any future looking and checking I might do if this does not work out. All information and knowledge is good.

On a side note I was wondering about things like emissions equipment on the '78s, the manual rear brake you mention on '77s and any other differences between the two years. Someone mentioned the cylinder heads are different. Stuff like this make me want to wait for a '77 if just to avoid emission equipment and get a more reliable manual brake.

Thanks all for all your help.

P.S.
It's hours later now. He did not answer so I left a message.
It's Friday night here, so maybe I called too late or he was otherwise unavailable. We'll see if he calls tomorrow.

Too many things about that bike scare me. I kept quiet about it having been owned by a mechanical engineer. For me, that is a minus. Here are the rules.
1. What ever is claimed to have been done, needs to be done.
2. Keep your money in your pocket.

If he wants money out of the bike, he should part it out. My daily rider has mismatched numbers too, but it was me that put it together, so I made what I wanted. I can get 50% more for the parts.